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Detoxing the Waismann Method?

Discussion in 'UROD~Naltrexone~Ibogaine' started by jake.conk, Dec 20, 2007.

  1. jake.conk

    jake.conk New Member

    Hello,

    I have been addicted to heroin for a year now and smoke about a gram a day. During the year I've detoxed once with suboxone which wasn't that rough but it only lasted about a month then I relapsed. I have recently tried detoxing again with suboxone but I just ended up getting real sick and relapsing. I tried it two times and got too sick both times.

    I was looking for alternative methods of detoxing and came across another new way called The Waismann Method where they put you to sleep with anesthesia for 1-2 hours and remove the opiates from your brain receptors with an antagonist drug. I don't remember what the name of that drug was but thats what they told me over the phone. When you wake out of it you stay in the ICU (Intensive Care Unit) for two more days then they let you go but you are not supposed to experience any withdrawal symptons or anything during the whole process. Maybe some diaherra for heroin addicts but thats about it.

    The cost for the treatment is pretty jaw dropping though, $15,800 is what they told me over the phone. Anyways I was wondering if anyone here knows anyone personally who went through it has any success or unsuccessful stories. $15,800 is an insane amount of money but not feeling any pain or withdrawal is worth gold to me and being up and back running in 4 days makes it worth it.

    Anyways please let me know if you guys have any comments or provide me with some feedback.

    Thanks,
    - Jake
     
  2. Mic

    Mic Guest

    Hi Jake, and welcome to the forum. It's been a couple days since you posted, so I thought I'd reach out...

    The UROD Forum is relatively slow compared with the other forums. I've not personally undergone UROD, so anything I say about it is based on what I've learned here. I suggest you use the search function above to home in on relevant discussions. Ask lots and lots of questions....read, read and read some more until you feel you have enough info on which you can make an informed decision. I won't tell you what you should do, but I can tell you that the vast majority of people who have undergone the procedure, would not do it again.

    Lastly, I suggest you start a thread in one of our other forums, i.e. General, Bupe/Sub, Heroin, etc. to introduce yourself. You could even cut & paste this post to save a little time and effort. This way you can get a bunch more input on what path makes sense for you.

    We're glad you're here, and I look forward to hearing from you again.

    Mic

    </center><center>It takes what it takes
     
  3. OnMyWay

    OnMyWay Well-Known Member

    Jake, I don't know much about that treatment option. But I have a question regarding something you mentioned in your post. You said you "detoxed with suboxone." I'm not sure if that means you were taking sub and then relapsed with heroin...or if you used sub as a detox tool, were clean a month, and then relapsed.

    I ask because if you used sub as a detox tool and were clean a month before you relapsed....it seems to me that a quick detox via the Waismann Method may not be what you need. If you were getting high for less than year at that time (since you've been using a year now), I would think that all the drugs would have been out of your system by then and the acute wds over anyway. So it doesn't seem that a quicker way past wds, although nice, is what you need. I mean..it seems like you may have gotten through that part before. Instead, it seems like you found out what many of us here are also learning: that the time after the wds, during recovery, and an effort to stay clean, is just as difficult. And that, I don't know if the Waismann Method addresses. It very well could, I don't know much about it, but from your explanation of the process it seems more of an in-and-out detox method. If I were you...I would focus on building a support system. Get a therapist. Go to NA. Do something different to get support for what you need to do, to make yourself mentally well, as opposed to a quicker and painless way of getting through the beginning part (which I suppose is debatable. I don't know much about that particular method, like I said). But I don't think it sounds like it deals with the particular aspect of recovery with which you may need the most help.
     
  4. sheffwed

    sheffwed Well-Known Member

    OnMyWay - I reckon you've hit the nail on the head.
     
  5. gil chaya

    gil chaya Guest

    My girlfrend and me just did the waissman<div align="left"></div id="left">detox withthe BS. men himself.
    fisrt meeting the price is set deppending on your look from $1500 to over $6000, I asked him few question pre treatment allergies test, any liver problems, and especialy what chemicals he was going to inject, he anserwed me like a retard, it will be total anestesia and his secret potion, WE decided to do it with him since supposedly he invented the technic and his the best expert.
    there was not 24 hours test , nothing they put us in a bed His Majesty just came to take the money and desapeard, there was no total anestesia just the biggest ammount of benzo you can take without diying , by the way the mother of a frienddid it 2 weeks ago
    and almost died of pulmonary clapse. I wook up 4 hours later completly stoned out of my mind, i could not move or see, the ukranian men nurse wanted me to pie in diapers thinner than baby diapers, i told him to give me a hospital pie jar, sorry they dont existe in Israel, so I told him a empty bottle, he brought a sqeeze bottle with a 1mm hold, I should have pied on the floor, but no in the diapers, the bed is plastic the frame metal, I was completly wet up to my neck and freezing the bed was a swimming pool, with herculean force, i took me half an hour to trow the matress on the floor and sleep wet on metal bars in the freezing rome in winters,
    lukily my girlfriend speaks perfect russian, and told him she would kill him if something happpened to me, one hours later I got a new bed and tshirt. in the morning came HIS majesty representative a major ligue Bxxxxch I told her we did not get total anestesia and the star never showed up, ,but of course he came she said and how could I know if I was under, I bluffed her and said I have a hidden camera then she admited he never showed up. then I did the same BS the anestiste he even told me the secret potion we got Naltrexlone per kg.. my girlfriend had hepatitus and an extremly week liver, it has been 12 days I,m 196cm my usual weight has an addict was 85 kg now I weight 64 kg I have the worst ever daharia worst then when I had dissentria, my liver is swollen has a watermelon, i never had any liver problems so imagine my girlfriend we are basically diying,
    the Super Doctor said the 5 mg diazepam we take a day is the reson of all these extrem withdral symptomes, until I checked internet where any page you open first it says if you have liver pain to immediatly discontinue the Naltrexone, other symptomes EXTREM DAHARIAT. This waisman has familly everywhere openning clinics, he is a liar a very dangerous man, in the USA the dosage is 25 mg we are getting 50 mg and diying and he kkeps on liying to us this MF.
     
  6. gil chaya

    gil chaya Guest

    Sorry about the spelling mistakes, english is my 4ft. language and the spelling corrector does not work.
     
  7. gil chaya

    gil chaya Guest

    sorry i forgot some stuff, suposedly I stood up on my bed jumping from bed to bed while I was pissing all over, kind like monkee,
    I could not even raise my arm.
    Most of the success stories you will she in blogs are waissman camouflage blogs, he is doing a major internet propaganda mostly camouflage under different site but all belonging to him and all over the world, to pay so much money to have the worst and longest cold turkey detox in the world, we are really fielling has we going to die next week ........................................
     
  8. gil chaya

    gil chaya Guest

    from all the detoxs I did the best from miles away is Ibogain , I was the first to be treated in amsterdam in the late 80,s, I trip for 6 days but i was pretty intense, know the product has been syntetize using only the good alkalyes and it is much easier and cheaper. it is a miracle drug against coke hero smoke and booze.
     
  9. manrayscamera

    manrayscamera Well-Known Member

    Greetings,
    I am aware of one opiate user ( c 3 years use of c 1 to 1.5gm/day IV) who underwent ANR c/o Dr Waismann in Ashkelon.I spoke to Dr W afterwards( indeed he lavished me with his full attention even though he was not well at all,likewise his sec. Mali).This user had formerly been through UK military and special forces training and was a well known 8000m mountaineer before injury lead to poorly managed pain which lead to self-medication.During ANR he reacted as if " he had been a user for a decade" a fact attributed to his likely exercise induced upregulation of opioid receptors.Indeed Dr W cited his reaction being akin to american footballers he treats.The poor chap was utterly washed out by ANR and cited it being harder than any special forces training.He had to be wheelchaired out whereas the client on the other bed bounced out happy as larry.Took him a few days to recover but by the friday he felt like a maharajah so to say.Dr W seems to use propofol,clonodine,benzos and naltrexone to precipitate withdrawl and to sedate.Medically this is a good combination and it is done with either laryngeal mask or endotracheal tube.No cravings were felt though behaviourally he cited it was odd not administering, a fact he attributed to the ritualised nature of administration.The procedure was not cheap and certainly not a walk in the park however it is cheaper for israeli nationals.Sleep post procedure was a problem and although clonidine was continued for a few days post procedure the hard love policy made them reluctant to hand out nocturnal sedatives.All in all more successful that buprenorphine which made the chap feel so bad that the only thing he could do to feel better was to use.Ifg anyone has any queries I will see if I can answer them as I have a fair bit of experience of waht goes on. Kind regards Manrayscamera
     
  10. sheffwed

    sheffwed Well-Known Member

    Based on your account gil chaya, there appears to be breaches of appropriate levels of care. I suggest you and your girlfriend submit a formal complaint to the relevant medical body in israel.
     
  11. pipsy

    pipsy New Member

    Hi everyone
    I was horrified to read gil chaya's account of treatment at the Waismann clinic. I have gone through it myself and my experience could not have been more different. The only problem I had with it is the fact that you are very much left to your own devices after you leave and my motivation to self medicate with naltrexone was non-existent. I walked out the hospital the day after the treatment and my main problems which persisted for about a week were feeling very cold, being unable to sleep very much and feeling very weak- i needed to lie down quite often. otherwise I think it is the best way to detox I have heard of or experienced. I honestly dont understand why gil + girlfriend experienced what they did because I was totally anaethtetised throughout the procedure, I remember nothing of it and was treated very well by Dr waisemann and all his staff. Going back to my original critisism, I think if you are going for this treatment you should do a lot of mental preparation beforehand and think about setting up some form of support network + councelling immediately upon returning home because the problem is that you have not really experienced withdrawal and suddenly you are clean having been used to being drug dependant for a long time. Dont underestimate the power heroin has over you. You need to fight it with all you've got and the fight only begins when you are not physically dependent or withdrawing symptromatically anymore!

    pipsy
     
  12. pic9978

    pic9978 Member

    In Greece where i come from and underwent UROD 5 years ago the whole procedure was really very easy...General anaesthesia and when i woke up i was like waking up from surgery (bad!) lied and slept for the night (the rapid section was over in the afternoon) i woke up sh*tting and puking but it got much better much sooner than expected and one and a half days later i was on the road to Yugoslavia for vacation with friends..I ate after crossing the borders though as i didnt feel like it but anyway i was already OK..mentally and physically..Of course then i was only 25 and i stayed clean for 5 years...I would do it again but i decided a more cold turkey style this time to learn my lesson better! My addiction is now only six months old, i never took pills so every time i eat one they calm me and i dont need a truckload of them so..i hope it goes through as smoothly as possible..

    Luckily my clinic was not that bad as the one Gil Chaya was in and they spoke my maternal language, greek, so everything was OK/...The doctor in charge though, the head of the place (there is -still- only one such clinic in Greece performing Rapid Detox) did not come but the next day even though he knew i was a medical student on my last year in Medical School and only nurses cured all the patients in the clinic..Irresponsible but..thats Greece u see...resembles to Africa in Health care..The procedure is not a myth though..I was sniffing 3 grams of heroin on Sunday and Wednesday i was standing on my feet, Thursday night left the clinic to drive about 1000 miles in my car with my bro who was clean to get to Yugoslavia for a big music festival...Wonderful times the clean times...I am sure they'll come again soon...Anyway..from the second day in UROD Tuesday that was, i started spitting the Naltrexone pills cause they made me feel withdrawal (at least that was what i thought!) They wanted almost 8000 USD to prescribe me pills for a year and assign a psychologist taht talked like a retard whom i was supposed to meet every week..I skipped both but the still wanted the full amount so i paid them 3000 and left them with the question whether to pursue lawsuits etc on me..(I signed for the rest of the money but never gave it)..they sent me a receipt later on, after i started missing my psychologists calls and i didnt took any pills with me at the time..The receipt was describing where did 1500 of my money go..Hospital materials and stuff they used on me like medication etc../ It was ridiculous as they were charging too much money for very ordinary things and over estimated the price of Naltrexone only to come up with 1500 explained expenses..Of course i didnt care for my other 1500 as i was freed from addiction really painlessly regarding to real wd symptoms and i couldnt ask for the money back as they had my signatures for receiving the total of 8000 USD..As i almost disappeared on them, they didnt ask me for my money either..I didnt show up for pills or psychological care so....no harassment...i suppose there was something illegal about the way they had their license for doing such stuff or something and they didnt even send me a letter home asking about anything...Bottom line though, i wouldn't recommend Greece for detoxing rapidly as it is only this place and if Waismann behaves this way it is a shame as well but i would recommend UROD for painless withdrawal sincerely..Nevertheless i'm doing it the harder way in a few days, if mother nature lets me to// PM me for any UROD questions i've learned some stuff and i knew some already before undergoing it..! /P
     
  13. pic9978

    pic9978 Member

    I forgot to mention that doctors sometimes should be taken their degrees off and thrown into jail as i know pretty much on these subjects..I am a GP myself now..a doctor without specialization yet- that is- my parents are both doctors and i've lived inside hospitals due to visiting my parents there after school and stuff..On the other hand there are medical doctors working all around the planet with magical powers who have cured millions like my parents whos have operated on ten thousand eyeballs with nothing but success!!! i respect those deeply and i know their everyday life and difficulties when someone they just cured isn;t feeling so well..I was not treated by one such MD in the UROD clinic but luckily i survived pretty much the same way as PIPSY did..easily..everything off in a few days..10 kilos lighter but still ok! The journey is ours to make@/P
     
  14. pic9978

    pic9978 Member

    Ah and i am not on Waismann's payroll...If he does the things GIL CHAYA says he does and i believe him, we should condemn him and NOT SUPPORT HIM...mods?

    And GIL...i dont think that where you went you had an ultra rapid detox with naltrexone properly...Or else you would be jumping very high in the beginning of the procedure and your head would reach the ceiling if you were flushed with this much naltrexone awake if you were an addict...it would be unbearable so something was wrong about that clinic...how about sharing the name of the facility for others to know and not go?
     
  15. manrayscamera

    manrayscamera Well-Known Member

    Hi there,
    there appears to much discontent re the Waissmann method/ANR or rather the care received.I am only familiar with the man himself and facilities in Ashkelon,Israel.Admittedly it looks dilapidated and the cobra helicopters dont inspire confidence however the levels of intensive care provided are first rate(my first hand observation).Regards medication the prefered induction is midazolam iv and there may be a premed with either clonidine and or antiemetic or sedative.Once sedation is induced airways are secured and propofol is used for the procedure along with naltrexone for a procedure lasting 4-6 hours.Its usually done early pm so pts awake in the dark.From my crude observation responses during procedure are a function of area under the curve ie usage vs time which should relate to receptor population.Remember endogenous opioids will also have a bearing hence lets say damaged american footballers who'vw been on o-codone for 6/12 following injury reacting like inveterate opioid users.Post procedure seems again to be a function of AUC some people walk out others cant move.Naltrexone certainly switches off cravings but is not at all with out probs; GI upset 1/2 post tab seems common as are acute withdrawal phenomena. Hand on my heart and this is observational I'm not sure I'd let a family member go through it. It is a bit like knee surgery without physio it is not a complete package and NTX is not a panacea.I think I would recommend a user trying to cut down as much as poss. then going onto buprenorphine at as low a dose as possible prob &lt; 1mg/day. Ive seen people detoxed in 4 days pretty much painfree as long as they are suitably distracted daytime and can sleep.ANy thoughts? M'camera
     
  16. hopefien

    hopefien Well-Known Member

    I think what was said about the internet prooganda in Gil's post is true, everytime i see some negative info on Weissman there is some well written articulate response by someone with 1 post! Does noone else notice this? I have no experience with this process, bt have heard and read some real horror stories! I just dont see how anything about the detox process could be rapid!


    God i offer myself to thee- to build with me and do with me as thou wilt.
     
  17. Freefly

    Freefly Well-Known Member

    Look in the pain med section look for layla she just had this done last week for the 2nd time she can answer your questions.

    Tim

    Day by Day is the only way....
     
  18. Freefly

    Freefly Well-Known Member

    LOOK AT THE FIRST POST IN THIS SECTION FROM LAYLA

    Day by Day is the only way....
     
  19. manrayscamera

    manrayscamera Well-Known Member

    salute or should that be shalom,
    I have posted a few entries regarding the waismann method and urod.I am not on the payroll but consider myself a even-handed and dispassionate observer.If it appears my postings have come hot on the back of a waismann detractor then apologies as i am in no way seeking to promote what is after all not exactly an evidence based therapy.I am a board qualified physician/pharmacologist with a special interest in toxicology.I have observed the waismann method.My appreciation is that a high level of intensive care medicine is practiced with meds tailored to individual responses.Granted if a patient is already on benzos then they will need a lot more midazolam that is elementary.There is no question that precipitated withdrawl is brutal.I have seen it in a conscious patient and frankly the only humane therapy is sedation/general anaesthesia.It is nigh impossible to know in advance what an individuals receptor population is like and like wise to have an idea of the battle between Noradrenaline and opioids(endogenous and exogenous).UROD seeks to redress the balance in 4-5 hours rather than days or weeks.Waismanns initial motivation was purely altruistic and chatting to him despite everything he in many ways is an his own anarchistic way probably one of the most insightful chaps you could be lucky enough to meet.A severe injury procludedd his attendance last year though he certainly wheeled himself out when he could.To demonise this man and his technique is myopic,to approach his treatment modality with an open mind, an awareness of post treatment probs and need for domestic support in the form of counselling or whatever will likely be fruitful.That the method is now a business may muddy the waters ethically and indeed it could be argued that disparity of costs make make the waters murkier.Fundamentally waismann offers a salvation for many,hope for some and waste of time for those who approach the problem without a safety blanket.Again I am not affiliated nor on the books.I am happy to answer questions,privately if need be.Again increasingly i perdceive buperenorphine as the way forward.See my other postings or contact me for further advise.Kind regards M'camera
     
  20. Freefly

    Freefly Well-Known Member

    Most people do not have 20 grand around to have Waismann's treatment done.

    Day by Day is the only way....
     

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