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Iboga ? ( Hope )

Discussion in 'UROD~Naltrexone~Ibogaine' started by steve22, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. steve22

    steve22 Member

    Hey guys,
    Its been a couple years since I last posted but I am Very Interested to learn more about iboga,Been doing my homework but there sure is what seams to be allot of misinformation out there on this? Its hard to know just whats hype and whats not?

    It does give me a sence of (Hope) from what I do know about it tho!

    Steve
     
  2. freakedout

    freakedout Moderator

    I have no experience with it, but anecdotal evidence seems to go in the direction that it is much more than hype.

    With that being said, the physical detox off of opiates is BY FAR the EASIEST part of getting clean. The challenge is staying clean.

    With the cost, foreign clinics, and some stateside underground providers I don't see the point of Ibogaine. There is no quick-fix and it appears that Ibo only helps with the acute withdrawals....the easy part. (I am not saying anything negative about Ibo, I just don't see it as a long term help. Just a tool to get over the blip of acute withdrawals...maybe.)

    I have been on this forum for years and it seems like people obsess about and over think the physical detox process when they really should be focusing on the real challenges.

    Just my $.02!
     
  3. movazi

    movazi Well-Known Member

    Freak summed it up perfectly.
    I have not done Iboga, my info is from two guys working at a Mexican clinic and they say it is of no real use. The effect though is similar to any other psychedelic drugs.

    The following is from a post by a Doctor from another opiate site :

    No significant rise in abstinence is reported from Iboga either. Note also a one in three hundred chance of dying. I'd strongly advise not doing this at home. One in three hundred in a medical setting is likely to be reduced to one in hundred (speculation) without proper testing and medical supervision.

    I can attest to someone experiencing an interruption in opiate usage after a large dose of LSD. I am inclined to think a powerful psychedelic experience can be helpful if someone genuinely seeks change. Someone on the forum has reported a similar interruption of opiate use with DXM, and DXM is being investigated for its ability to make a withdrawal less severe. Because of it's quick break down, it is sometimes mixed with an oxidaze inhibitor, e.g. quinidine. Another option is baclofen, which is showing some promise in reducing withdrawal symptoms. Ketamine and GHB have been mentioned by some as helpful in alleviating withdrawal symptoms. All these methods are outside the realm of my experience, and I have not found sufficient evidence to suggest anyone try these methods themselves; unless you've had no success with more conventional methods my advice would be to avoid them; at the very least do some serious research.


    In my opinion the best way is to use Clonodine and Benzos for only the first week or two to reduce the initial severe WD symptoms and then the only remedy is TIME. Just give it time, eat right, take supplaments that your body needs (like L-Tyrosene, Zinc, Magnesium, L-Dopa, Protein, etc. ) and let mother nature do its work. Eventually the brain re-adjusts but it can take months. Stop looking for short cuts, there are none.
     
  4. steve22

    steve22 Member

    Morning Folks.

    Thanks you both (Freak and Movazi)For taking the time to give me your take on this,Iv been around long enough to know there is no-Easy way out-Its what ya do After the detox that matters most! I 100% understand that its the work and effort on my part that makes recovery happen.

    I am still reasearching this tho,and yes Freak the cost/and legal aspect of this are Big factors to consider for sure!! I am very Open Minded on this however but then thats is why I am here,I very much Respect the ODR community at large.Its one of the Most Sane recovery groups on the net,Iv spend a good bit of time as a visitor on a few other sites just to learn as much as I can and this much I do know,There are allot of Great, caring people around here!

    I still would not mind hearing from someone (trustworthy and who genuinely sought change) that did Legally give it a fair and balanced shot and says it was a total waste of time,energy and funds so,Steve stop wasting your time on this mess its all BS-or-(Trustworthy voice of ibo experience) says Steve.....???fill in blank( )saved my life?

    Thanks guys
    Steve
     
  5. movazi

    movazi Well-Known Member

    Steve

    Desperate people, be it AIDS, Cancer or addiction will go to extreme extent to find hope and a cure. It is human nature to seek hope, even at the cost of self deception.

    You do not need anyone to tell you anything, just use your own logic and you will find the answer. We are in a Capitalist system. If there was any scientific truth to Iboga, the active ingredient of it would have been extracted by now, patented and sold for huge profits.

    Here is another logic : There are ample countries in which rate of opium addiction is rather high (Afghanistan, Burma, Thailand, Iran, ….) , big pharma does not operate there nor do these places have FDA or any other regulatory mechanism. if Iboga was the cure you would have seen it in these countries and the cure would have been soon exported to Europe and US and would not have been an underground industry.

    The mechanism of opiate addiction by now is well known. opium mimics endorphin, after prolong use the receptors get used to having their endorphin come easy and on regular basis, as a result the body stops making its own endorphin. Once the external supply of endorphin is stopped the receptors go crazy and all kind of chemical imbalances take place in the brain. Only cure would be something that forces the body to produce its own endorphin and at the same time to reduce the huge number of receptors created over prolong use. No such cure yet exists. Whoever will come up with such cure will probably beat Bill Gates as richest man on earth :) Simple.
     
  6. spring

    spring Administrator

     
  7. steve22

    steve22 Member

    Well said Spring,'

    I know its no (Cure)There is no such thing,And im not looking for it (Ibo) to be one,The pros and cons involved with can be pretty confusing.Thats why Im HERE! Addicts in a state of desperation are always looking for cure or an easy way out and in my quest for knowledge on this subject I have found one of the most IMPORTANT factors in this type of treatment is the PROVIDERS experience regardless of how or where you do it! the sucess stories I hear about had a good outcome due to there providers level of experience with it,Many of the negetive reports seam to be a result of unqualified providers,or even more so the person receiving treatment Not being READY to Change there lives and all the external factors nessessary for a positive outcome. The latter here applies to any type of recovery method! Movazi,Im here to learn so I dont fall prey to (Self Deception) wishfull thinking,snake oil or the like but I do respect your take on this.

    There is just so much (possitive) data out there on this if you take the time to look into in well enough that I think it deserves valid consideration as a possible treatment method,Im not ready to say yet one way or the other but i am very much open minded on it!! I did read some interesting data about the plug being pulled on reasearch on ibo due to the fact that there is no money to be made by Big Pharma with this stuff,therefor no more reasearch on it,Its a very interesting read I can tell ya!!But not at all surprising btw.

    As to cost,How much does a 5/7 day inhouse detox using subox cost? and then get dumped out in the street a week later.GOOD LUCK they said,......NEXT!!!
     
  8. Buffalovirgo

    Buffalovirgo Well-Known Member

    movazi is a hater, bonita has wonderful things to say about it. i think with all forms of getting clean it requires you gotta want it.
     
  9. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member


    You know Freak,,, some of what you say is true. We do obsess about the wd syndrome. I did. Let me also say I could and DID wd from opiates too many times to count. that I could do. What I could not master was staying clean. Why I wonder? Do you think that maybe after I abused my body so often and long with opiates that I did damage that did not allow me to enjoy life after I was clean. I was able to stay clean after I jumped from sub for 8mo. I also have to say that the last of those months I was planning my suicide. I could not smile for the heart, I was still so lethargic I could barely make it thru the day at work. To me... really life was not worth living like that. I knew I didn't want to go back to depending on dope to live but life was not worth living the way I felt either. I keep believing what folks told me... it will pass, hang in and all that. I did all I could... went to meetings, exercise as I could I did what I was told. I knew my way never worked in the pass...so what was I to do. I was so close to death by my own hand.

    I did give up and go back to dope. I also was lucky enough to have the money to go to Mx and give life one more shot. So I figure... hell, if its a scam then who cares. I can alway off myself when I got home. Cant take the money with me. I really had nothing to loose so I gave it a try.

    I did get thru about 90% of the wd over night. Two weeks later I found myself laughing at my nieces playing in the pool. 30 days later I had energy and much pep in my walk. I was honestly happy. So... for me. Boga saved my life. Do I think this should be first line of TX for youngens...no. I remember when I was younger.. wd lasted a week and then week two I was back to my happy self. Truth is I didn't do anything else I was told. I didn't do anymore work to stay clean. Yup... what happen to my brain I am totally at fault for. I choose to continue with dope to the point it made such changes in my brain that I could NOT live or function without opiates. I needed a miracle and I got one.

    So.... did I still have to face th real challenges of staying clean after Iboga. HELL yes. Did I get the time I needed without cravings to do that work HELL YES! I really had no interest in dope after the tx. this reprieve allowed me to do the work needed to grow up, face life on life's terms as the rooms say. By the time the IBoga left my system which was about 7 mo I was well grounded in my sober life. I had the support I needed to reach out too. I don't think I would be alive today if not for Iboga.

    So.... not to say you don't know what your talking about because you admit you don't know how Iboga works but YES.. I got a quick fix. That quick fix gave me the window of time for me to work on me. To grow up, to see that life is not all preaches and cream everyday and I can deal with that. I could hurt emotionally and it not be the end of all ends.

    What is sad about Iboga is that too many providers claim the cure and that is crap. Iboga does not cure learned behavior, immaturity, inability to deal with life on lifes terms, but having to get thru day to day like non addicts can because they did not self medicate themselves all their life so they didn't have to feel emotional pain. After Iboga the one who stay clean continue to work on themselves. they do reach out for support and accept the help. The ones that go to Ibo and not willing to do anything to wards recovery will fail. Thats a fact.

    So yes... bard methadone and sub the easiest thing to do is get clean... the work comes with staying clean. I have been blessed with a second chance and very sad to say it was my last chance. I do believe I did so much damage to my receptors by my own hand that I needed those receptors addressed.

    If you will.... may I share how I see it. I think the damage I did sorta deaden the ends of my receptors to the point that the synapses did not connect. So when my receptors fired the dopamine/seratoninie/endorphines just went every which way except where they were suppose too. I think what Iboga did was correct that for me. Sorta like pave the way for those very important chemicals so I got use of them. This happen in about 4 days after I had the experience of Iboga. I wish I could draw a diagram to explain, or wish I was more intelligent to explain. But no one can tell me that Iboga doesn't work... I am living proof. I have seen others, too many others use Iboga and get the same. So.. yes it works.

    as far as money... really? How much did I spend for my dope. There was a time in my life I use 800bucks worth of Heroin just to keep from getting sick... so money.. I laugh. I wish it was cheaper... and there are ways that it can be. But for my butt... I paid about 6 thous for my first TX and it was worth 10 thousand for me. I am here today due to Iboga.

    I have nothing but respect for you but really... so what if one takes a medication that our government wont allow. There are other governments that will and I am very thankful.
     
  10. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member


    I am not even gonna address this guy.... full of it as far as I am concern and still suffering from paw so I will leave him alone.

    Steve... what I have come to believe and I live by. I try to anyways.

    I dont think Iboga is for everyone sorta. But their are those that are drawn to it. Lead to it sorta speak and if your are one that feels lead to seek out Iboga PLEASE listen to that. Dont let me talk you into it, dont let haters or those that do not have a clue guide you. I suggest you get on your hands and knees and pray to your HP and let him/her guide you.
     
  11. steve22

    steve22 Member

    Morning folks,
    Bvirgo,
    Im glad you mentioned Bonita,She and I both came here(odr) close to the same time back around 08/09 give or take and I watched that girl go through HELL!!While subox does have its uses its a horrible drug to come off of after being on it for a long time,I know what it does to your brain cuz I been there myself!!Over the years any time i saw a post from her on the forums i would click on it to see how she was doing......And then i also recall when she began to look into all this ibo chat that was poping up here and there and i also became interested in it as well. I followed stories about ibo when they came up, the whole (His mom) thread I kept up with as it unfolded,reports on the news,Oreilly/fox news,Nat.geo did a story on ibo a while back,youtube,facebook ect,

    Anyway back to Bonita,when i read her posts these days and she says things like,Im Happy today,I feel pretty darn good about myself these days,My brains not in a twisted mess like it once was,and statements along those lines,I cant help think there MUST be more to this ibo thing than just the (Placebo effect) I mean recovery is a mental,Spiritual,emotional thing.Anything that can a person a leg up thats does not use an opioid to help your brain heal I wanna know about it.Ibo or not I also think (aftercare) in what ever form, aa/na/a shrink is also vital to recovery.Thats one we each have to figure out all by ourself and its usually where most of us screw up!!!

    Like ya said,Ya Gotta Want It!!!

    Steve
     
  12. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    TO everyone.

    If you feel lead to Iboga there is a reason for it. As I said I do love my country. I have done lots of travel and spent time in other countries. But I do NOT trust my government. Money is the root of all evil... not the money but those who covet money.

    There is more research out there in the last few yrs. So do your research. Don't take my word or for it, don't take a hater who knows NOTHING about it. It is not a cure. You cant cure learned behavior or can we cure personality traits. We can change them though or NO ONE would EVER Get clean.

    I know for me...if I really wanted to get clean when younger I could have without Iboga. I did lots of dope for prolonged periods of time which did damage to my receptors. Just like those on anti depressants, benzos. MY addiction became more a poor choice or unwillingness to surrender. I did have to surrender to the fact that I was powerless over drugs. I had to surrender and allow others to help me. that was hard but at least possible. I could not fix the damage done by staying clean because I didn't have the time to wait ten yrs for the correction. I would of killed myself. I think there is a reason we fall in love with opiates. I think it more the a personality trait. I think I had an underlying condition that I self medicated and I found that opiates worked. The sad thing was they quit working or my tolerance grew to the point I could not take enough opiates without death to continue to fix the deficit that was there.

    I have seen a few kids that I KNOW have an underlying chemical imbalance .... must of been lack of endorphins because when they took opiates they felt better. We all know we can not continue life increasing our dope use. that is why I stole the dope from work, sold my TV etc. I had to keep the amt of what ever to be happy... I was willing to do what ever it took to do so as we all would. I think Iboga fixed that deficit for me. I know it did.

    really.... are we going to continue to accept kids killing themselves at their own hands just to say our government is right? That poor child on another thread... What if he did take Iboga.. what if it worked for him? Is it so bad that he goes to a country that will accept it? Would it have been so bad that he broke the law and did the Iboga in this country? He may still be alive.

    This week I have had three deaths of KIDS. KIDS!!!!!!! Under the age of 25 kill themselves because they could not stay away from dope. Really is this OK??????? Would it have been so bad if they tried Iboga?

    Hell,.... we are willing to put kids on Suboxone/methadone to keep them from using street dope. We are willing to accept that even though way too many on sub are becoming so depressed they think suicide, agoraphobic, NO sex life. But thats OK???? Pls folks. Think.

    I am just done with watching kids die, adults in jail because they don't know how to live without dope. They obviously cant or they would don't you think?

    I am not against AA... really I am not. AA was a godsend for me once my brain chemicals were corrected. I needed the support to grow up, I needed to be told what to do for a while. But really... AA alone how many are really successful? Not many. rehabs are a joke. Do I agree with them,,,, HELL YES> If I didn't go the three or four times to a full 30 day program I would not have had a clue how to stay clean once I got out of there.

    To me the best scenario would be receive the TX with Iboga then go IMMED to rehab for the social part. Because Iboga alone is not enough. we have spent way too much time running and self medicating ourselves and due to that we really did not mature at all. We need to be taught how to mature.. face life. I surely didn't know just how immature I was. I though I was doing pretty good. Didn't spend jail time since I was 18, I had a career, I am a RN. I have a house, dog, car, pay my bills. On the outside I looked like I was a grown up... I wasn't. If not for the rooms and the times i spent in rehab I would not have a clue on how to face life.

    We say "you have to be willing to do what ever it takes" but then we put limits on what we can do to help ourselves? Willing to use narc an or vitriol on the daily bases and who cares it will do perm. damage to our receptors... they are not taking opiates and that is it. Is that really all that counts?

    I know I have repeated my self a few times and I am sorry. I am just so done with seeing kids/adult kill themselves over this addiction BS. Why cant we just be open to whatever it takes?
     
  13. steve22

    steve22 Member

    Hi Bonita,
    Long time no see,I have been doing exactly just that,A whole lotta praying and thats kinda what has me back here,I had a period of recovery going on for a while but i kinda backslid due some spine issues (or at least that the BS i sold to myself to justify it)But im back now and want get moving forward again and im in the process of weighing my options here,Also as you may see im doing my homework on the ever controversial iboga? Im pretty happy to see how well You are these days and to tell ya the truth(hope this dont sound to odd)but you kinda had a little bit to do with what got me back here! I aint a quit-er,I still do have Hope for myself even if the inspiration to keep going comes in the form of what some folks object to,(ibo that is)

    Seams like a whole lotta peeps wanna hate on this before they do there homework on it? makes me feel like I otta come in the back door for asking about it (sorta)

    PS.
    I sure would like to talk to you.
    Thanks
    Steve
     
  14. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Steve.... pm me your phone number.

    And do you really care what others say or think? Are they going to be there for you when your about to put a gun to your head? will you allow them to be there for you at that point?

    Do what your lead to do..... do believe Iboga is NOT a cure for much of how addiction stunted our growth. It is a cure for the physical part of it though.... I lay my life on that statement. I wish the dream state did make me grow up over night but that just did not happen with me or many others I have seen/wittiness myself. that part takes much work on your part. Be prepared for that.

    I have to read back but I think you are on suboxone? If so ... get off and stat! I went to my pvt MD and flat out told him how I was planning to help myself. I told him either he will write script for dope for me to last a few month or I would continue to go to the street for them. I did sign a contract stating I would never ask for dope again. Which I did willingly. That man.... I love and will forever for trusting the junkie I was. I think he saw how desperate I was and feared I would kill myself if he didn't help me. If your gonna use Iboga as part of your recovery plan then the longer your away from suboxone the better for you. the easier the recovery process will be.

    I am more then willing to share where/who you can trust with this plant. That angry guy M is correct that there are providers out there that are less then honest, not clean themselves or just taking advantage of the addict and situation we get ourselves in. there are also some VERY wonderful souls out there that believe in this plant and willing to risk their life to help another. You need to talk to as many providers you can find. EVERY ONE of them. Then pray and let GOD lead you to the one that will fit your needs.

    From off the top of my head..

    Clare Wilkins I would send my loved one too and she is in MX, Dr Solo I would send the loved one that is not in the best of health for Iboga but if they continue like they are death will happen anyways. I also know a few... well only one other person who is in Ca. that I would trust. there are a few that do offer this TX but I would not send my dog too. But your sound smart and will be able to discern for yourself. There are a few others in the USA but they have been pinch by the Feds and cant take the chance right now in their life... one still will treat you.. thats how much he believes in this.
     
  15. steve22

    steve22 Member

    Thank you Very Very Much.
    I will check this info out
    Steve
     
  16. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

    Fight the FIGHT Bonita!!
    Good luck Steve!
    Snapper
     

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