1. Information in this forum is not monitored or provided by a medical professional. The information reflects member opinions only. Do not act on advice from these forums without first consulting a qualified medical professional. No professional addiction advisors are recognized by the owners, admins, or moderators, even if the member states such status. All content is copyrighted and protected. DO NOT use any information that can identify you in these forums. If you do, a google search can link your addiction post to your name causing harm to your future activities including employment.

Iboga/Ibogaine/ Eboga, a detox tool.

Discussion in 'UROD~Naltrexone~Ibogaine' started by Bonita, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    This thread will be about iboga, to share experiences or ask questions.

    I must start out by saying that it is a class 1 here in the USA.. legal in most other countries except Belgium and Sweden I believe. It is not regulated, I don't believe anywhere.

    Ibogaine is a plant that has the ability to get one thru the wd process in approx 16-36hr with ease comparative to ct wd or weaning. It also has the ability to satisfy the receptors for a set time (different for everyone) so that they are not using all their energy fighting the cravings. This gives one time to grow in your sober life. I also need to say it is NOT a cure for the addictive personality, this part we must all work on for success in staying clean. I think we can all agree that is the most challenging part of recovery.

    Some may be blessed while taking Ibogaine to experience the "Vision" state. I don't think its correct calling it hallucinations because I have done LSD/mushrooms and iboga is on a totally different plane then that. So the term "dream state" seems to fit more. The visions are more like dreams... when you watch some one under the influences of Iboga you can actually tell when they enter the dreamstate... just like a normal dream you will see Rapid Eye Movement.

    It has been around for thousand of yrs and the Bwitti tribe in Gabone Africa have been taking Iboga in the raw form to cure many things... from infertile women to gastric problems. If one is interested in knowing the whole story how it came to America and used for addiction... you can go to "Myeboga.com" and there you will find the whole story about Howard Lotsoff. My hero.

    Of course there are some down sides to taking this mediciation... for some the dream state, on day two one are left totally exhausted and raw emotionally. Some go thru the experience and get up the next day, eat and are all happy. It is NOT a fun medication to take. NO abuse potential at all. In the two yrs that I have heard about/met folks who have done it, I believe I met only one guy who said he "liked it". Well, I did like it myself though I don't want to do it again. For me it was easy but I also have been thru wd from just about every opiate on the planet except Methadone. So.. comparative.. for me it was a cake walk.

    Another down side is that there have been recorded deaths after taking Ibogaine. They happen. Its imperative that before one decides to partake of Ibogaine they are checked out via EKG and liver function test. Ibogaine can not be mixed with many medication that most addicts are on..such as anti-depressant, some cardiac medication and the list goes on. I also need to say that Ibogaine will not get one thru Benzo wd safely. I know some providers say it does and I wont argue it but I don't believe it. It is safe to be on a benzo during the iboga experience. I also believe the more we learn about it, the more it is in use, the less dangerous it is.

    Our government, FDA knows all about it, knows it works but not interested. I believe that because our elected being dependent on donations from large companies i.e Pharm companies.. we have little chance of it ever becoming legal here in the states.

    I also want to say for myself that I would NEVER want to talk some one into doing this. As often as I can, I share my story of how it helped me get thru the wd process and gave me time to grow up...but to talk someone into doing Ibogaine is as useless as trying to tell them to get clean. It has to be a personal choice. I would suggest that before one decides on this mode of treatment to do their own research, speak to many who have done it and be very picky on choosing a provider. There are folks out there that will cheat you, don't know the medicine and will take advantage of the suffering addict. I have heard some horror stories of those who were not treated correctly or not even given the real Iboga. I heard one story of a guy in Canada that gave the real Ibogain to a women but left her alone in a hotel while he was out probably getting high. She was so frightened to find herself alone she ended up in the ER. Being legal and not regulated in Canada there was nothing that could be done.

    Well, this is an opening. I will add stuff here and there as I find it on the net.

    Again I must say that this is just a tool to assist one in getting thru the detox. Not the only tool out there but for me the one that worked and stuck. Its not legal and not a fun medication by no means. It is used for help to expedite paws, fight depression, ptst, actually there is a list of stuff that the community and the Bwitti tribe find it helps. I will gather the list and post it.


    I also want to say... there are those out there who will give such disinformation about iboga and it saddens me. Some that took it will say... it didn't work for me. They chose to go back to dope and really don't want to take the responsibility for that decision. I KNOW it works. I KNOW it will get one thru the detox phase of recovery. I have NEVER seen it not work. I have seen a few decide to go back to dope but not due to the iboga not working... they were just not done with the dope I guess.


    I hope those on this board will post their experience with it. The good/bad and ugly. the more information given to those suffering, the better ability they have to decide if this mode of TX is for them. It is not for everyone. I don't think one with Dx of schizoid should partake, some providers disagree with this. I would discourage it myself.

    I think the ideal tx would be to recieve the Ibogaine for the detox then go in house for rehab. To do the ibogaine alone and not actively work towards your recovery... most will fail.

    Godspeed,
    Bonita
     
  2. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    just for fyi... here is list of meds that do not go with ibogaine. These are the ones that can prolong qt interval and with iboga just too dangerous.

    Drug (Brand Names) Drug Class (Clinical Usage) QT TdP Comments​
    Amiodarone
    (Cordarone®,Pacerone®)
    Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT ​
    TdP F>M,
    Arsenic trioxide (Trisenox®) Anti-cancer/Leukemia QT
    TdP Cases in Lit,
    Bepridil (Vascor®) Anti-anginal/heart pain QT
    TdP F>M,
    Chlorpromazine (Thorazine®) Anti-psychotic/ Antiemetic/
    schizophrenia/ nausea
    Cisapride(Propulsid®) GI stimulant/heartburn QT
    TdP F>M,
    Clarithromycin(Biaxin®) Antibiotic/bacterial infection Cases in Lit,
    Disopyramide (Norpace®) Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT
    TdP F>M,
    Dofetilide (Tikosyn®) Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT
    TdP

    Dolasetron(Anzemet®) Anti-nausea/nausea, vomiting QT
    Droperidol (Inapsine®) Sedative;Anti-nausea/anesthesia
    adjunct, nausea QT ​
    TdP Cases in Lit,
    Erythromycin (E.E.S.®
    ,Erythrocin®)
    Antibiotic;GI stimulant/bacterial
    infection; increase GI motility QT
    TdP F>M,
    Felbamate (Felbatrol®) Anti-convulsant/seizure
    TdP

    Flecainide(Tambocor®) Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT ​
    TdP Association not
    clear
    Fluoxetine
    (Prozac®,Sarafem®)
    Anti-depressant/depression QT
    TdP Association not
    clear
    Foscarnet (Foscavir®) Anti-viral/HIV infection QT
    Fosphenytoin(Cerebyx®) Anti-convulsant/seizure QT
    Gatifloxacin(Tequin®) Antibiotic/bacterial infection
    Halofantrine (Halfan®) Anti-malarial/malaria infection QT
    TdP F>M,
    Haloperidol (Haldol®) Anti-psychotic/schizophrenia, agitation QT
    TdP

    Ibutilide(Corvert®) Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT ​
    TdP F>M,
    Indapamide(Lozol®) Diuretic/stimulate urine & salt loss QT Cases in Lit,
    Isradipine(Dynacirc®) Anti-hypertensive/high blood pressure QT
    Levofloxacin(Levaquin®) Antibiotic/bacterial infection
    TdP Association not
    clear
    Levomethadyl(Orlaam®) Opiate agonist/pain control, narcotic
    dependence
    QT
    Mesoridazine(Serentil®) Anti-psychotic/schizophrenia QT
    TdP

    Moexipril/HCTZ (Uniretic®) Anti-hypertensive/high blood pressure QT
    Moxifloxacin (Avelox®) Antibiotic/bacterial infection QT
    Naratriptan (Amerge®) Serotonin receptor agonist/Migraine
    treatment
    QT
    Nicardipine (Cardene®) Anti-hypertensive/high blood pressure QT
    Octreotide (Sandostatin®) Endocrine/acromegaly, carcinoid
    diarrhea QT
    Paroxetine(Paxil®) Anti-depressant/depression ​
    TdP

    Pentamidine
    (NebuPent®,Pentam®)
    Anti-infective/pneumocystis pneumonia QT ​
    TdP F>M,
    Pimozide(Orap® ) Anti-psychotic/Tourette's tics QT
    F>M, Cases in
    Lit,
    Procainamide (Procan®
    ,Pronestyl®)
    Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT
    TdP

    Quetiapine (Seroquel® ) Anti-psychotic/schizophrenia QT
    Quinidine(Cardioquin®
    ,Quiniglute®)
    Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT ​
    TdP F>M,
    Risperidone (Risperdal® ) Anti-psychotic/schizophrenia QT
    Salmeterol (Serevent® ) Sympathomimetic/asthma, COPD QT
    Sertraline(Zoloft®) Anti-depressant/depression QT
    TdP Association not
    clear
    Sotalol (Betapace® ) Anti-arrhythmic/abnormal heart rhythm QT
    TdP F>M,
    Sparfloxacin (Zagam® ) Antibiotic/bacterial infection QT
    TdP

    Sumatriptan(Imitrex® ) Serotonin receptor agonist/Migraine
    treatment
    QT
    Tacrolimus (Prograf®) Immunosuppressant/Immune
    suppression
    Cases in Lit,
    Tamoxifen (Nolvadex® ) Anti-cancer/breast cancer QT
    Thioridazine(Mellaril® ) Anti-psychotic/schizophrenia QT ​
    TdP

    Tizanidine (Zanaflex® ) Muscle relaxant/ QT
    Venlafaxine (Effexor® ) Anti-depressant/depression QT
    Ziprasidone(Geodon® ) Anti-psychotic/schizophrenia QT
    Zolmitriptan (Zomig® ) Migraine treatment/ QT​
    We have compiled a list of drugs to avoid in patients with congenital Long QT syndrome. See below
    for the full table.
    T​
    he drugs listed here are potential triggers for Torsades de Pointes (Polymorphic Ventricular Tachycardia) or Ventricular
    Fibrillation in the presence of a long QT interval. People who have a long QT interval, due either to congenital long QT
    syndrome or due to a QT-prolonging effect of medications or certain heart muscle diseases, are generally advised to avoid use
    of these medications if possible. In addition to these drugs, patients with a long QT interval should also avoid drugs that
    prolong the QT interval, as listed in
    www.Torsades.org.

    Chemical Name of
    Drug
    Brand Names of
    Drug Drug Class Clinical Use​
    Albuterol Proventil, Ventolin,
    Volmax, Xopenex
    Bronchodilator In asthma: relieves wheezing /
    bronchospasm
    Amantadine Symmetrel Dopaminergic /
    Anti-viral
    Parkinson’s disease,
    Viral infections
    Cocaine Local
    anesthetic
    In surgery, to numb tissues
    Dobutamine Dobutrex Catecholamine Heart failure and shock
    Dopamine Catecholamine Heart failure and shock
    Ephedrine Broncholate, Kie,
    Marax, DF syrup,
    Rynatuss
    Bronchodilator,
    Decongestant
    Allergies, sinusitis, asthma
    Epinephrine Adrenalin, Ana-Kit,
    Bronitin, Bronkaid,
    Epifin,
    Epinal,Epipen,
    Epitrate, Eppy/N,
    Glaucon,
    Medihaler-Epi,
    Primatene, Sus-
    Phrine
    Catecholamine,
    Vasoconstrictor
    Treatment of anaphylaxis, other
    allergic reactions.
    Can be combined with local
    anesthetic to prolong their
    actions (e.g., Xylocaine,
    Sensorcaine)
    Fenfluramine Pondimin Appetite
    suppressant
    To aid dieting and weight loss
    Isoproterenol Isuprel, Medihaler-
    Iso
    Catecholamine Allergic reactions
    Metaproterenol Alupent, Metaprel,
    Metaproterenol
    Bronchodilator In asthma: relieves wheezing /
    bronchospasm
    Midodrine ProAmatine Vasoconstrictor Prevent low blood pressure and
    fainting (syncope)
    Norepinephrine Levophed Vasoconstrictor
    Inotrope
    Treatment for shock or low blood
    pressure (BP).
    Phentermine Adipex, Fastin,
    Ionamin, Obenix,
    Obephen,
    Obermine,Obestin,
    T-Diet
    Appetite
    suppressant
    To aid dieting and weight loss
    Phenylephrine Neosynephrine Vasoconstrictor
    Decongestant
    To raise blood pressure.
    Allergies, sinusitis, asthma
    Phenylpropanolamine Acutrim, Dexatrim,
    Phenoxine,
    Phenyldrine,
    Propagest,
    Phindecon
    Decongestant Allergies, sinusitis, asthma
    Pseudoephedrine Novafed, Pedia-
    Care, Sudafed
    Decongestant Allergies, sinusitis, asthma
    Ritodrine Yutopar Uterine
    relaxant
    Used to prevent premature labor
    Salmeterol Serevent Bronchodilator In asthma: relieves wheezing /
    bronchospasm
    Sibutramine Meridia Appetite
    suppressant​
    To aid

    this list in not all inclusive so be sure if you choose this route to share with your provider all meds you take on daily bases. Including otc's and any supplements. Some of supplements needs to be withheld also.
     
  3. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    I also thought I would give a run down on what to expect when you arrive at whatever place you go for your tx. Of course every provider is different and all in not written in stone. But this will give you an idea of what happens.

    If one is using crack/etoh most providers will have you there for 3-5 days before tx. This is to ensure you not drinking or doing crack up to time of tx. Coke/crack MUST be out of your system. Etoh, well in my head and I need to say this is only my opinion ... etoh detox is much like benzo's as far as dangers. All providers I know want you to go thru the detox phase first.. meaning two weeks without any drink. This will lower the chance of seizures etc. I must say, when I was in Mexico I was so jealous of how fast the etoh'ers recovered. They had energy, great mood and endorphins just flowing. While I was going from chair to chair and not sleeping.. they were having a ball in Mexico. The same with tweekers... they just recover so damn fast it make me think I choose the wrong drug to get addicted too... joking of course.

    Opiates are treated differently... Meth/sub even more different. Sao can be treated pretty soon after arrival. Meth/sub clients the tx is give over a few days, not all in one 24 hr period. This is very taxing on the client and most can not stand up to it. This is why providers suggest you switch to a sao for a few weeks before you even arrive.

    Once the providers think you're ready, they give you a small dose to see how your body handles it. They should be monitoring your BP/heart rate, gastro etc during this time very closely. This small dose will take away any opiate wd... then approx 3-6 hrs later the flood dose. Some providers will break this up into two doses or some give all immed. All depends on the client and how they handle the first dose. After the flood dose one will be laying down, anxiously waiting. On the norm the first sign it is coming on will be noises are so much louder and things seem brigher... then it comes on.
    Some will seem to be asleep, some talk thru the whole experience, some toss, turn and stay pretty quite. All during this time the provider should be checking your bp/hr, monitoring you O2 levels. If the provider is a good one before one goes south they can see your not compensating well and will intervene. If not so good a provider then one could go south without the provider even realizing it. And off to the ER you go.

    For most the experience will last thru the next 16 or so hours....then as it wears off they began to talk more. It seems most will say.. "when will this be over". the provider needs to be at their side assuring them things will be over soon. For me this part was enjoyable.. I was lightly dreaming but still needed much help to go to the bathroom.
    This part I was able to review all that I saw or didnt see during the flood. This is the time some will vomit due to no food for over 24 hrs and the belly is full of bile. Feels better just to purge it. Some clients will vomit an hr or so after each dose. this is why its so important to have a provider that knows what they are doing. Sometime you have to replace the medicine they just vomited, sometime they dont actually lose the medicine but just vomit. Better to keep the head as still as possible during the tx but this is not a sure thing that it will stop you from vomiting.

    I look at the vomiting as a purge... purge of poisons we put in our bodies on a daily basis. But the threat of aspiration is big and must be closely watched to prevent this. IF aspiration occurs, not good at all.

    Well... I think this is enough to digest.

    Again, ibogaine is not for everyone. For some it the best option out there to bypass the wd/cravings and give one a chance to work on themselves and thier recovery. I can not stress enough how important aftercare is. If one thinks they can just do the iboga and move on they are sooooooooo wrong and will fail.

    We all need to work on the personality traits that allowed us to live that life. We all need to grow up and mature, we all need to learn how to deal with the simple things that non addicts learned as they aged or experienced. We depended on the dope to cover up all these little stressors or feelings. for some BIG feeling were covered up by the dope. This... iboga will not erase for you, you have to get thru it just like normal folks. What ever normal is.

    Godspeed,
    Bonita
     
  4. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    There is a movie available on netflex that walks thru a few drug addicts life and tx of ibogaine. Very true To life and don't flower the tx to make it the cure or something it's not. Warning though, shows explicit drug use. I can't watch it myself, I tried but got sick. If new in recovery from banging dope might not want to watch, could trigger some cravings.

    Godspeed
     
  5. his.mom

    his.mom Well-Known Member

    Great thread Bonita! I can also vouch for the effectiveness of Ibogaine. As you know both of my sons went through the tx. One for heroin, one for other issues and I had a tx myself. I have described my experience in my thread "Our Journey with Ibogaine" on page 19. It was a real awakening for me since I had no addictions other than smoking. After the tx, I simply quit smoking with NO withdrawals whatsoever. Unfortunately, like an addict, I CHOSE to begin smoking again while I was on vacation and drinking alcohol. I could still be smoke free had I not CHOSE to start up again. In my opinion, Ibogaine is everything that it promises to be.
    Although my addict son did go back to using, I know it was a choice, not as a result of not being able to handle detox. I think that his age and the fact that he went right back to the same "friends" that worked against him. I am hoping that he will go through another treatment when he decides to get serious about his life.
     
  6. his.mom

    his.mom Well-Known Member

    What is the name of the movie?
     
  7. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Oops, "facing the habit"
     
  8. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

    So I watched that movie....m m mm. I didn't expect the ending to be all it was, poor Ashley.
    Turns out that lil locale in Mexico is quite popular.
    I've read a lot of posts recently as I said I'd do, some are mixed about using it for methadone??
    Your concern is patients endurance??
    I'm VERY curious and this is totally doable for me. When we get over $5K is when I have to drop out. As always I would appreciate your thoughts/concerns.
    Thanks. Snaptacular!!
     
  9. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    I like that movie because it tells the truth. I hear so many call ibo a cure. As the movie showed, it's not. The hard truth is you can always go back to dope. Many die going back to the dope. I talk on the phone to many. I spend most if the time denying the cure. Denying that when you come thru the experience you will be as you were prior to doping for 20 yrs. Come on, how can you turn back aging and aging while doing dope.

    Yes, ibogaine does help with meth detox. But not overnight like heroin/oxy addicts. It is a longer process. So you must go to reputable provider, not some person who used ibo to break their habit and then feel like they can provide for others. I have heard some sad stories of those type of providers. I do think the recovery time for meth/sub addicts is longer but in comparison to ct, not so. It's always better to get to a low dose, switch to a short acting for a set time before tx. Did I answer your question?
     
  10. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

    Ct?
    So ibo is given a couple times during the first visit, or I would go back sooner?
     
  11. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    It is up to the providers who treats you. Let them make that call. Most will have to stay at the clinic for two weeks total. Everyone is different and a lot goes by your assessment.
     
  12. Rainier

    Rainier Well-Known Member

    I've been meaning to post on this thread for awhile, to share my experiences with Ibogaine. I think it is important for people to have an idea of what this might involve, though my experiences, from things I've read elsewhere, are not typical.

    First, let me say that I'm really glad I did it. I'm not sure I ever would have quit dope without ibogaine, and it has definitely had a huge positive impact on my life. But the experiences I had were pretty dark (especially the second). More on that shortly.

    The detox itself was the easiest I've ever been through. I barely felt any WD, and went from being able to think about absolutely nothing except banging dope to really not being interested in it at all in the 16 hours or so that it took. This all by itself was nothing short of miraculous. I did get a brief period of time free from cravings, but it wasn't more than about 2 weeks. I'm told this was likely due to the amounts of drugs I'd used and the length of time I'd been at it. I did use a few times after my treatment (only once was it an opiate, but that doubtless only made things harder on me.) I struggled with it a lot, and was close to going back to dope on several occasions.

    As a result of this, I was encouraged to do a second treatment, which I did. It did have the desired effect; I haven't had any real desire to use since. But it was a very, very dark experience - I spent a lot of it staring into the abyss. What I'm talking about here is an absolute dark emptiness, accompanied by a feeling of hopelessness and meaninglessness. Since one of my intentions in the treatment had been spiritual seeking, I felt that I was being answered, and that there was simply nothing there. I did have a few other visions, but they were mostly disjointed, and I don't have a lot of clear recall of them, except for one, where the take-home message was clear: I'm done with the dope. I've had enough, and it is time to move on and do something else with my life. This was kind of positive, but was overshadowed by the rest.

    I came out of this experience in a state of suicidal despair. If I'd had access to a gun at the time, I'd have blown my head off, and considered the logistics of acquiring said gun for several hours. This is not an exaggeration, and it hung on for a while. I tried to deal with it as best I could, but shortly after returning home I ran into dealers a couple of times. I seriously considered scoring enough dope to take me out. I didn't have any desire to use; I just wanted to die.

    About a week after I returned home, things were starting to get a little easier for me, and then someone called me unexpectedly and offered me a job that I badly wanted, far away from home. I jumped at it, of course; I know a lifeline when someone throws it to me. And am currently happy and occupied, doing something I've always wanted to do.

    On balance, in spite of the difficulties had with it, ibogaine has been a godsend. Knowing what I know now, and as hard as it's been at times, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It got me off the dope, it gave me a shot at a life that I can love. But it was by no means an easy experience, nor a happy one.
     
  13. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Hey M,

    Here is the thread that explains how iboga works. Might want to take a read. Or not. No sweat off my arse. I am clean today and not suffering a bit.
     
  14. movazi

    movazi Well-Known Member

    Hey gyus,
    Watch out for Iboga and scam artists and those promoting it. Nothing but charlatans, praying on the desperate and in WD pain. Ugly, real ugly.
    They are all in the business of selling or referring users to Mexican Iboga centers, purely for monetary gains.

    All potent psychedelics can have a permanent change in the brain.
    Iboga is a strong psychedelics, no need to pay these high and ridiculous prices charged by charlatans for a psychedelic drug. If you think messing your brain with a psycho drug will make you stop opiates then go get some LSD or mushrooms for fraction of the cost of Ibogain.

    Any dissociative drugs such as ketamine , dextromethorphan (DXM) have exact similar effects, with less toxicity - None is a cure for addiction nor provide any relief from WD symptoms.
    I question why ibogaine treatment costs so much. That should ring loud bells if one is not deaf.

    The mechanism of opiate addiction are well known. There is no cure except time. Too many endorphin receptors (as the brain has increased its receptors due to artificial supply of opiates) and too few endorphin produced by pituitary gland (as the brain saw no need to produce its own endorphin so long it was getting it externally) are the cause of WD, the PAWS , the depression, fatigue, RLS, lack of motivation, and all the misery that comes with cessation of the brain getting its endorphin.

    Disruption of the Endorphin system causes a cascade of other chemical imbalances (Dopamine, Serotonin, GABA, and other neurotransmitters)

    There is nothing on the market yet to reduce the number of extra receptors or to increase the production of the endorphin by the brain. There are SSRI antidepressants that help Serotonin or Dopamine to linger longer in the brain (helping with depression or anxiety) , there are supplements that help restore GABA (N-acetylcysteine) or help adrenal gland (L-Tyrosine, or L-Dopa) but none is a magic bullet and they are all too slow and mild in their therapeutic impact.

    Time is the only magic bullet and every addict should understand this important fact. The brain eventually restores its chemical balance and if anyone would come out with a real cure or a short cut he will be among the 1% in a very short time :- )
     
  15. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

    Movazi,
    You're killin me, I'm gonna correct you again and then I'm done with you.
    The "Fast Detox" service here in Clearwater runs for upwards of $12K-$15K, and they claim they can keep you sedated during the detox.
    They claim they can detox you from mmt in that same time. BULLSHIT!!
    I'm goin 4 mos and still feel it. You mentioned your research is primarly outta MX centers. I had a headhunter from one of those places chase me for 3 wks to spend $6K (half the cost of above mentioned alternative). If you dig and research and maybe even learn some diplomacy you may find true healing right in front of you.
    There are snake oil salesman in every aspect of consumerism. If you get sucked in I'm sorry, well maybe not so much for you as you believe the first thing you hear and ALL that you've read, therefore..enjoy!
    Your generalizations are gonna make me puke dude. I have an idea for you, you keep on holding that rock wall up and occasionally spark up another one sided conversation with it seems to be doin you wonders.
    Mmt and sub detoxes are the worst, but I want to go on record and say with the right amount of research and determination you CAN find help. May take 7 days and a few TX's but what is your time worth to you, 7 days and $4K or 4-12 mos lost wages, missed family experiences, cancelling vacations. Its up to you to find what's best for you. And what's best for you may be unreallistic for me.
    One more thing, do you PERSONALLY know anyone THAT HAS used ibo and feels the same abt it as you??
    Rent "I'm Dangerous with Love". Watch it and then really think to yourself if Dimitri would risk it all for something that doesn't work. HE AIN'T GETTIN RICH DOIN IT, that's for damn sure.
    You're very confused, and if you have questions, you'd be better served asking them rather than accusating ibo is a sham. Where do think most prescription meds come from??
    Hope this note finds you well,
    Snapper.
     
  16. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    The only true thing this guy said is that you do have to be careful on who you choose for your provider... sad but true. There are some out there that will put one in danger for payment. So... All I can say is do your research. Talk to everyone you can find, ask for referrals, ask what medical equipment do they use, ask the price before you go and ask for any hidden expenses. Ask if you have to come back for boosters or do they send them with you.... ask about booster period. There is a list provider anyone can find on the net .... look at myeboga.com. Not all of them are still offering and there are a few clinic I would not suggest for the younger addicts. IN fact... I would not suggest that Iboga be the first line of tx at all. I feel it very important that one does go thru a rehab at least once. I know I have been three or four times. I hated it but I walk away with more knowledge about addiction and how to live dope free. If it wasn't for having been thru rehab I am not sure how successful I would have been at staying clean. I don't think I would of know how too. As I said... the deox is such a small part of recovery... tiny when compared to a life time.
    My dream treatment would be for the addict to receive the tx and have a few days of recovery time... then go straight from the provider to in house rehab. In Afraica there is a guy that RUns a few rehabs... he treats first with Ibo then the addict goes into general population for the next 28 DAYS... HOW cool is that. I wish I was rich .... I would have the same. First the Iboga tx then 28 day program to learn how to stay clean...If I ever hit the lotto... I will have such a place. I would make it manadory for those who never been to rehab.





    I do know there are folks out there offering this treatment that are using themselves.... What a way to dirty the air.. If it was me I would ask right out iif the provider is clean themselves. Also... ask if they ever took the medicine themselves.

    THere is a MD that does treat in mexico that I do refer those that have questionable ekgs and yet still want to go thru with the tx. I would not treat them myself but in this case I would suggest you go to him, even though he did not take the medicine himself *to my knowledge* as of yet. He still provides a very safe treatment though I think rather expensive. BUt really... I cant expect a MD to Make less the miminal wage when he spent 12yrs going to school.


    But... the rest of M post is full of himself and apparently does not keep up with the latest. Anyone hear of John hopkins Hosp? They are in the middle of doing testing with mushrooms for cluster headaches with GREAT promise. I do know a guy who gets these tx every change of season to ward off those dibiliatting headaches. HE swears by it but docent enjoy the experience. For 3-4hrs of discomfort is worth it to him. Also.... they are doing studies with DMT for those facing the end of life with great promise. Did you know that we all have the dmt molecular in our system? It is at its highest level at birth and at death. I just found this interesting...

    JHH is doing some great things today as far as studies....finally thinking outside the box and willing to look at things that have been put on the back burner for the last 40 yrs. Better late then never. Anyone interested on netflix is a great docu on DMT.. also Nat. geo did a show recently on Iboga mushroom and a few others... very good and very enlightening.
     
  17. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Hey Snapp.... do you remember when D***tri made the statement If I have to go to jail I just have to go to jail? Not sure if you're aware but D and a few others did get arrested for offering to help someone... it was a sting-set up and they got busted. To date NO charges have been made, still holding his passport but no charges.
    I know this guy personally and just LOVE him. I never met a guy so selfless. He does have a ego but damn... look at him. Cute as homemade sin. Well, maybe not to you but I would trade my baby finger for one night with him... LOL> But of course.. I am easy. LOL. Hell, I would have him or his girlfriend. One day ask me about this... interesting for sure. Not for the board though.

    I just pray he doesnt have to serve any time for giving his life to help the fellow addict. He has more guts then I do. I love my fellow addict but not sure I am willing to go to jail for them. That is pure love. He is dangerous with love for sure.

    It's funny.... D was treated in the Netherlands by Sarah who now also has charges on her. Our government is working at not making this tx avail for us addict in the USA. Though I would bet my house that they'd treat their own with it when they become addicts working the under cover. I know they did back in the 50/s openly... now I bet behind close doors.

    Back to D***tri.... the man of my dreams. I never met a person that I actually believed was part of the Bwitti tribe. He lives it. I am not of that culture and just cant get my head around it. I do think the way they live but just not all the way. I am a product of my culture for sure. I remember when I met him... I was just a yr clean and for the first time really had a sex drive. I am not sure what woke it up so strong... meeting D or being clean for the yr. LOL.
     
  18. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

    Senorita Bonita,
    I read the pm u sent.
    I left a very short reply as there wasn't much else to add.
    You're so awesome!!!
    I didn't know he he got pinched, D***tri I mean. That's a shame, very seldom do you run across a person as dedicated to another human's well being. I think these ppl should be somehow protected as they are truly an endangered species.
    BTW, I'm comfortable with my manhood, I don't have a problem agreeing he's not hard to look at.
    I DID know about Sarah's troubles. As much as I appreciate her help w/me as I said before I couldn't help but sense complacency on her part. I suppose after close to 1000 tx's it inevitable.
    God Bless those that bare their necks for others!!
    As far as the proccess of staying clean, its the toughest part of the experience, no doubt. My "out there" time is relatively short compared to some of my good friends here so my heart and a couple atta girls/boys go out to all that are clean and happy today.
    I DO remember being happy, I've mentioned before I really don't have a lot of depression issues to deal with so long as I cansneak past PAWS I feel my chance of success will multiply greatly.
    I love you Sis! And Rain if you happen across this post, I love you too!
    Ttys, John
     
  19. Buffalovirgo

    Buffalovirgo Well-Known Member

    snapper i am one of those people that did the rapid detox, and if you have it set in your heart and mind it does work.
     

Share This Page