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Looking for input...from senior & new members....

Discussion in 'General' started by arlenewla, Nov 25, 2011.

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  1. arlenewla

    arlenewla Well-Known Member

    Wondering what happened to all the addicts who used to come to ODR for help?

    Many senior members will remember that "back in the day", this board jumped with newbies arriving daily for assistance. So many, in fact, that we were hard put to keep up and give the in depth attention needed. Spring would be the record keeper on the actual numbers, but I know the board looks very different now.

    It can't be that there are fewer addicts today than yesterday...of this I am sure.

    So, it puzzles me. The fear of posting as a newbie was the same then that it is now so that can't be it. It can't be that addicts don't reach bottom today as they did 2, 3, 4 or 5 so years ago. It can't be that money continues longer. At some point or another, there's just no more. It can't be that families are more tolerant now than before. Same can be said of employers. And it certainly can't be that law enforcement is more tolerant of addicts in the now than before.

    Is is possible that addicts today are less fearful of going to NA/AA and are receiving support directly there and have no reason to post on ODR? Is it possible that more addicts are now willingly going inpatient than before?

    If you've been around board for a while, tell me what you believe could be the reason(s)? Tell me if you think my above assumptions are wrong.

    I'm damned if I can figure it out! Thanks to all, Ar
  2. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    I think it just that there are many more boards avail. Now its very easy to have a forum. So simple anyone can open one.
    My friend has one that actually makes enough to pay for a worker to monitor, keep the scamming down etc.

    There are many... I have referred folks to different boards depending on personality. Some boards are more open to different modes of tx. There are boards that actually say suboxone is being sober, some boards that think being clean is impossible for some, some believe in harm reduction....some don't allow NA\AA to be mentioned. Some don't allow GOD to be mentioned.

    So many to choose from these days and more new boards are coming all the time. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, except for the boards that promote dope use which I don't visit,

    Just my 2 cents.
  3. arlenewla

    arlenewla Well-Known Member

    Aaahh...you are absolutely right, Bonita! Had totally forgotten that reason and its a biggie.

    When I left ODR, I was posting on another site where everything s*cked. I certainly knew about pro-Methadone sites, the major pro-sub site sponsored by the mfg of Bupe, as well as ODR and the s*cky site. But that was pretty much it for "mainstream" going back a couple of years as I recall.

    Years ago, Dave (Peacenik) found me posting anti-Methadone messages on a pro-Methadone site. The name of the site had indicated to me that the agenda was to "speak" about Methadone. I thought there was supposed to be a dialogue. Well, turned out I was very wrong in that the "speak" could only be positive stuff about Methadone. I had come on to say that MMT had lots of negative pieces (as in horrific) and that I had significant experience to "speak" and back that up. Can't remember if I got booted off the site or not before Dave invited me to ODR lol!

    So the point being is that addicts are now dispersed amongst numerous "recovery" sites....And certainly 'caveat emptor' (at own risk) on quality of advice/suggestions coming their way...depending on the point of view and personal agenda of the person running the site.
    While there's nothing wrong with personal agenda if you're the one paying for the site...it's also true that addicts should be aware that not all detox/recovery sites are created equal.

    What I am concerned about is "how" newbie site members arrive....in understandable desperation. So I think its very possible that they might take anyone's advice no matter how wrong (even dangerous) it can be just so they have something to grab on to. Frankly, during PAWS if someone had told me to stand upside down & whistle Dixie as a sure-fire cure for what ailed me, I just might have done it...such was the level of desperation for it to stop. I didn't like the idea of TIME as a cure very much.

    Thanks for weighing in Bonita...very appreciated. Love, Ar
  4. spring

    spring Administrator

    Here's my take on it Arlene...There have been so many experiences written, along with solution-based replies posted, over the years here on ODR that I believe many find their answers by simply reading, And since we try our best to keep the truth and call out the BS, well..most of the info is pretty accurate here.

    On and off thru-out the day as time permits, I watch the number of visitors online at any one time. I have never seen less that 100 and have seen as many as 2 and 3 hundred on the board at a time. The majority either aren't registered or aren't logged-in. They show up as guests, while the names show up for those who are logged in.

    I cant count the number of times new members have registered and introduced themselves with a thank you along with the words "I have been lurking and reading for months" or "The amount of information on this site is astounding, I found the help I needed here"

    So this leads me to believe that many get their help by just reading? If this isn't the case then ...ya got me!
  5. arlenewla

    arlenewla Well-Known Member

    Spring..so pleased that you replied for several reasons (thank you again)...but in specific you're the one who has the stats.

    Your point is very true as well....ODR has been around so long, has tons of stories, and for the most part, I believe that members on this site have given, & continue to give, very credible advice. And yes, I too have seen posts that start with "have been lurking."

    It is my sincerest hope that for all those who read, that they at some time register and begin to post for the critical interaction that's needed when getting AND staying c/s.

    When I was detoxing, I could have read tome upon tome of addicts' experiences, but it wouldn't have been enough for me unless I could have "spoken" to another addict. I hate to see addicts isolate since this is a big part of the problem to begin with. And I know it will come as no suprise to you that, as fantastic as ODR is for a starting point, I personally believe that up-close & personal is also needed in conjunction, to wit; AA/NA/therapy, etc.

    Hope you're having a good holiday weekend & staying away from malls! Best, Ar
  6. AumuA

    AumuA Well-Known Member

    The obvious answer is that the War on Drugs is finally WORKING!

    I kid. But I notice this too, and not only on ODR but in real life. Now I know perception is a funny thing, and I'm not totally sure what is Real, and what I am selectively seeing.. but it seems like when I came into recovery and NA a few years back that the area was only growing, and expanding.. and now a lot of meetings are struggling to even keep the door open. People aren't showing up. I'm not showing up sometimes, but I'm working on that. Not only that, but for all of the court cards that come through the doors, the number of actual newcomers who want to even try and pick up the program are quite few. Sometimes I feel like I am the last newcomer to show up, and I came in on a court card.

    I bounce this off of people and commonly I am told that it has ups and downs, it goes in cycles etc, and I can see that it does. But the people I used to hang with in recovery here and IRL.. I don't know where they are. But you know who you are.

    Edit: It's almost like recovery was COOL for a little bit there, like it was kind of almost a hip thing. Eminem came out with an album called "Recovery" a few years back, that pretty much says it. And maybe now.. recovery is getting back to its regular un-hip, un-cool, un-glamorous self. I'm just musing here, and like I said, perception is funny.
  7. Rainier

    Rainier Well-Known Member

    I know of several senior members who have left the site (and I've come very close, and don't post as much as I used to) because they find the site repressive. I can't even count the number of times I've been attacked on this board for speaking my mind about NA/AA, which, although it seems to work well for some, just ain't for everyone. And it certainly isn't for me, nor is it the only way to stay clean.

    Also, I and some others - who mostly aren't around this board anymore - resent the editing and deleting of posts by the mods, often posts that are not even offensive and aren't attacking anyone. Sometimes it seems that we cannot even have a healthy debate here.

    Also, members being banned - or threatened with being banned - leaves a bad impression with the rest of us. Censorship is not conducive to attracting or retaining members!

    Some of the people whom I met on this board, whom you won't find here anymore, ask why I bother to post here at all. I tell them it's because I think that having someone who is willing to dissent and offer other options and perspectives might be valuable to someone else who is seeking help and doesn't necessarily want to hear about 12-step programs or god.
  8. krish

    krish Well-Known Member

    I am not saying there isn't a huge opiate problem in our society, because there is! But drugs are changing too.. Bath salts, dragonfly, that other thing I forget the name.. crystal meth seems to be on the rise.. so they aren't gonna be searching opiates.

    Our news isn't always about oxy's and heroin now.. they are reporting crimes and people being on bath salts around here more now adays...
  9. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    you know Rain. I never got crap here for my choices of recovery. Yes I have been deleted before but looking at the meat of what I was doing should of been deleted.We addicts do get out of hand at times.. I did. Esp when I was weaning off sub and the following months.

    I actually left for a while for an UNCENSORED site that turned out to be bs (that same 'sucky' site that Arlene mentioned). I was asked NOT to say the word recovery.. I could not use the word. And lord forbid if I use the GOD word. Not that I was "witnessing" or bible thumping but just shared that I do pray and believe in GOD.

    Then I confronted the BS flowing out of their mouths as the reason why they cannot get clean...

    They would say I am a twelve stepper, I pushed Iboga and that was just NOT true. I would never push iboga on anyone who was not interested. It just doesnt work that way and I surely do not want to be the one who pushes it if things should things go south on them.
    Well, I do have to retract a bit. I did encourage you Rain, very strongly to go for a reset if you could. You're the only one I can remember and I was sorry i did that. (even though I think you did get something out of it even if you didn't see it.)

    There are NO sites that do not have to censor at some level. IF not then the fights get out of hand, 'good ole boy' clubs develop and even have secret rooms that the rest of the board is not invited to and lots of making fun of them behind hidden walls.
    So.. if you're looking for the perfect board, give up. Not gonna be there.

    I have found this board to be rather open to me and my choices. Even was asked a very good question about my choices that made me look closer, which is a good thing.
    So many stood by me at my worst whining, biotchy self. When I did get the nerve up to ask forgiveness for my attitude it was received with open arms.. nearly made me cry.

    I hear ya on the AA stuff but really I don't see it. Yes, some do need to get out of the house and cant afford therapy and aa is the easiest to send them to. But I also try to show that there is much more to choose from these days.
    In fact there is a sticky with a list of all types of treatment modes and support.

    I hated to go to aa when I was trying to get clean. Once I did finally surrender it was the easiest place to go and find folks to play. I even was able to find a sponsor to do the steps with me and I am not even in this country very much. I can call at any time if I am stuck or just need more clarification or to see if I am on the right path and she is there for me. I don't go to many meetings these days simply because I don't have the time when I am home. I would rather spend the day with my Mom.

    I just don't know what else to tell someone when they are isolating so bad and don't know the area well enough to help find a SMART recovery group or they don't have the money to buy RR stuff, or cant afford the books or a therapist for CBT.
    Besides that then AA is all that's left and its free and it helps get one out of the house. It's so heart wrenching to see someone suffering in isolation, despair and so damn lonely.

    I have and will again suggest that folks go to a meeting, even though I am not all that involved myself. I do have to say that working on the steps have really opened my eyes and helped me from 'getting stale' for lack of better words. I needed all the help I could find esp my first yr. I only started the steps a few months ago.. and it's hard work.

    I do think everyone here knows there are many paths to sobriety and AA is not the only game in town but just the most available. I think it's a good start til one can find their own way to a different support group.

    So.. take what you can get and leave the rest. And those AA sayings?.. damn... they do fit.
    I take what helps me and leave the rest alone.

    I do try and step out of myself and reach out to another, this keeps me fresh and on track myself. Non addicts can play with dope, I cant, Non addicts don't understand my pain,, addicts do.

    So...if you can, find that perfect board that will allow anything to be said, This board doesn't allow someone to trash me just for fun, or lie about me because they hate that I don't suffer, I don't care about all the fighting anymore. Don't need it today to keep my endorphins going. I'd rather giggle, not fight.
    I hope I never enable another and prevent them from seeing the truth about addiction, continue doing dope and with my blessing. I will never give my blessing for someone to remain on MMT or BMT.

    Sometimes when we fight so hard not to hear something.. it's the thing we need to hear.

    Love ya,
  10. Rainier

    Rainier Well-Known Member

    Geez, Bonita, don't EVER be sorry for that!!! I did get something out of it, to be sure. (I assume you're talking about the 2nd treatment, here...the 1st one was a life-saver, and I think you know that.) Even though the experience was a harsh one, and even though I went through some sht after it, I DID get the reset. And it did make a difference.

    That I'm clean today is a direct result of using iboga. I truly do not know if I'd ever have gotten free of the sht otherwise. I know some will disagree with me on that, but bottom line is I'd tried everything else, and had not been successful. My life is so different now, I don't even have words for it. I'm also well aware that it does not, in and of itself, keep me clean - but it sure does help.

    I wouldn't push it on anyone either, but I certainly do try to raise awareness about it, and suggest it to people as an option, because, well - people need to know that it is available and that it does work.

    Now I've said this before, but think it bears repeating - I am not completely against AA/NA. It just does not fit with my personal experience of the world. But when I first quit dope, I'd also have been screwed without it; not the program, which I have little use for, but the people. Having someone to call when things got rough was crucial. Still is, sometimes, but I don't necessarily call someone from the program anymore - I have other friends whom I can lean on.

    The censorship issue - I don't think that people should be allowed to just trash each other, but there have been some pretty civil conversations and posts that have been deleted as well. It pisses me off, and has turned a number of people I know from this board off completely. I think some of the mods are too quick to jump in and delete anything that anyone might remotely find the least bit offensive...except there are things that I personally sometimes find offensive that are evidently just fine.
  11. Living Free

    Living Free Well-Known Member

    I think we have a very impartial and fair bunch of mods here, and a generally civil very helpful board of members. The mods all have suffient experience and clean/sober time. I respect experience.

    I have been told to back off a time or two if it gets too heated and the side of me I dont like to see can emerge, and Im grateful for that :) LOL so I know they dont play favorites to senior members. They are very neutral - been my experience for almost 4 years now.

    As for who they have banned, yes, at one point I disagreed with one choice, but then there are circumstances that none of us are privy to, and lest not forget we are ALL human. Their intent has always been for the greater good.

    There are some boards that have had a WAR room just to hurt and offend someone else. Where the hell is the productivity and building of ones crushed self esteem there? As Bonita points out, very much reverse sensorship exists on many other boards. I think its very civil and fair here and not everyone is meetings slanted. I didnt go to but 3 myself. I found my niche and saving grace in therapy and listening to some really strong grounded folks who had more experience, and greater and wiser perspective than I...period.

    All we need to do is talk about what works for us, not what doesnt...that helps addicts and saves lives.
  12. spring

    spring Administrator

    ''All we need to do is talk about what works for us, not what doesn't...that helps addicts and saves lives''.

    Wow Liny...I like that. just a few words but so profound. I'm going to borrow those words and use them as needed, which happens to be often around here lately.

    and now..

    Aside from the spammers that I delete from the member list on a daily basis, we get approx 40 new members a month. I think that's about the usual number but I'm going to check on that later for my own curiousity.

    I'm not going to spend a lot of time and effort defending ODR. Been there, done that and I learned that you cant please everybody, but I do want to comment on something Rain said.. I'm not sure which posts you are referring to Rain that have been deleted, but there must have been a good reason. We mods are only human like everybody else, sometimes we have to make unpopular decisions, sometimes we make the wrong decisions, but our hearts are in the right place and every decision we make is for the good of the board as a whole...to make sure the culture of the board stays focused on helping the addict who still suffers.

    And speaking of the good of the board...I made the unpopular decision to include Ibogaine in the title of a forum...and my reason for making that decision was because I watched your metamorphosis, Rain, because of Ibogaine.

    Living free said:
    Amen to that! Thanks Liny for your post.
    The reason many are so passionate about NA/AA is because it worked for them. As Bonita says..."take what you need and leave the rest". In fact, concerning the NA/AA issue, Bonita pretty much said it all...No one is stopping anyone else from seeking RR or Smart Recovery or any other type of support. Why is it that no one ever posts about how these other programs helped them? I don't know the answer to that one. It's not because anyone is stopping them.
  13. spring

    spring Administrator

    Um yeah, that's it!:wink:
  14. teach07

    teach07 Well-Known Member

    Just saw this thread and read the posts......we all have different perspectives and as addicts I believe we are all very strong willed folks....that being said, I think it is amazing that we are able to co-exist on this board at ALL, if you get my drift.

    I personally have not been a part of this board as much as I used to. There are several reasons for this which I choose not to go into (I think there are some of you who probably know).
    To be perfectly honest, those reasons are on ME. By this I mean.....I need to work on the whole "getting my feathers ruffled" too easily..... and then doing what I always did when actively using.....run.....shut folks out.....and refuse to see the situation for what it is......
    I love the saying.....Its none of my business what you think about me.....just need to remember it more often.

    As far as the number of new folks coming here being less....I don't really see that....what I have seen, is all the energy being focused on just a few people who post here and I believe the newer members finally just go away....Again that's that's on ME also.....

    I can be a part of the solution and reach out to the newer members. If nothing else this thread has reminded me of that.

    Just my thoughts on the subject. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

  15. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member


    I think you're right about only some getting a response. I am guilty of this myself. I have missed many new posts and have not figured out why .... and then when i do come across them a week later I dont post.. some due to lack of time, some due to recent illness, but I think mostly purely being lazy. I hate to admit it but it rings true for me.

    If I see someone else pick it up then I convince myself that they are not being ignored and are taken care of. I have even let chit go that I know to be untrue but due to my lazy arse, I just let it go.

    Many have reached out to me, stuck with me thru my nasty days, whining days and angry days. I should do the same.
  16. snapper

    snapper Well-Known Member

    I've only been around since April of this year. I have watched it die down in that short span.
    As a recent, very recent, member of NA I have seen a newby every night, sometimes 2. Maybe some of what you've been preaching about 3D help is sinking in?? Its a nice thought anyway. ;-)
  17. spring

    spring Administrator

    In reply to Teach07's post...
    ""Its none of my business what you think about me""

    Ha! I like that saying, have never heard it before.

    ""what I have seen, is all the energy being focused on just a few people who post here and I believe the newer members finally just go away""
    I admit I am guilty of that Carol. My reason for this is because in the past I would check in on the board, read one or two new posts before work and reply to maybe one of them then feel guilty that I didnt get to the rest of the new members. I dont know, with me having the admin title I thought that new members might feel overlooked if I replied to one or two and not the rest.

    So instead I decided to let the community take care of itself, hoping that the long-time members (and even the newer ones) would reach out to welcome the newest members.
    I do feel bad that I don't have the free time that I used to have to be able to be more active on the board. My time comes in spurts and when I do have extra time, I am working on the board behind the scenes with maintenance, etc. and then, if time permits, i will check on and reply in those threads that I have been active in.

    There used to be a time when I could log in everyday, read every new post and reply to everyone. That was a looong time ago when the board was much smaller and I think we had about 100 registered members instead of the 7,500 something we have today. My how things have grown!

    Edit to add; And by the way, I wasnt insinuating that any one member should feel obligated to welcome every new member that comes along, but I figure with the number of active members we have at this time (approx 160+).. should pretty much cover it and no one will be overlooked..hopefully they will get at least one welcome.
  18. spring

    spring Administrator

    Nice thought and could be true. :wink:

    I generally dont worry about the board waxing and waning since this has been going on for over ten years. ODR has a rich history and has been through good times, bad times, and all those in between. Other boards have come and gone, but we still stand through it all and when the time is right, those who need to find us will.
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