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new to sub

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by RS8877, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. leafy blue

    leafy blue Well-Known Member

    Great job, R! Keep it up.

    I did want to respond to your kratom question - I wouldn't recommend taking kratom after or during a sub taper. Hell, I wouldn't recommend ever taking it, unless you are in full on, cold turkey withdrawals and just need to take the edge off a bit. Please know that if you take enough to be "withdrawal free!" then you are just prolonging the inevitable - the eventual healing that your brain has to do after the opiates leave your system.

    What I used it for (very effectively) was for sleeping during acute withdrawal stage - if I took about 4mgs of it I could get 4-5 hours. Basically, I think that kratom can be, and was for me, a lifesaver during the acute phase. But you have to use it very wisely because every time you take it, it sets you back. As freaked said, there is a cross tolerance there and it will set you back in terms of getting through the withdrawals.

    Because you are tapering off sub, I don't think the kratom will be helpful. If you taper correctly, the acute phase should be mild and you wouldn't want to undo any healing you did throughout the tapering process. My recommendation is that you talk to your doctor about some comfort meds - clonodine and maybe some muscle relaxers - but stay away from anything with a cross tolerance to opiates, especially after all your hard work tapering.

    If you have any more specific questions about kratom, let me know. I don't have extensive experience with it, but I did recently use it during a cold-turkey detox I did. I also extensively researched it and tested it as a replacement prior to doing the detox so I knew where I should be in terms of dosage.

    - leafy
  2. StuckonSubs

    StuckonSubs Well-Known Member

    Hey, sorry man I haven't been around in a while... I couldn't log in when the forum first made all the changes and I never checked back till now.

    Anyway, glad to hear you are down to 2mg.
    I'd recommend getting the 2mg films sometime soon if possible. It makes tapering way easier.

    What i did with the 2mg films is fold them. You fold them in half both ways (length and width). That creates 4 even .5mg pieces. Then you fold each of the halves in half again. That creates 8 even .25mg pieces. Then if you really want/need, you can fold or cut those little .25mg pieces in half to get .125.

    Then you just have to set a taper schedule and STICK TO IT no matter what. We Always find some excuse to take an extra piece! But you can't do that if you want to complete the taper. You can even start by cutting down every other day for a week, (like 1.5, 2, 1.5, 2 etc) then as your body adjusts you just stick at the 1.5mg per day dose.
    You can go as fast or slow as you want, but just set a schedule and stick to it. You have to learn to fight through the minor w/d symptoms associated with tapering. It gets harder the lower you go, so you need to have the will power and desire to fight thru it.

    You have to get in the mindset that "I'm not going to take a pill to feel better anymore".

    You've been on a while now. Tapering to .25 is your best chance to avoid most of the w/d at this point.
    If you taper that low, the w/d shouldn't be that bad at all. Going off the high doses is where the horror stories come from...

    My experience with sub w/d was much more mild than a short acting opiate. I would NOT consider switching back to a short acting opiate like that one member suggested. That, to me, is moving in the wrong direction. And there's no guarantee you are able (or willing) to stop the short acting opiate once you re-ignite that addiction.

    Honestly, the biggest factor in withdrawal is you and your mind. It's only as bad as you make it on yourself. I truly believe that. That is why people's w/d experience is so widely varied IMO. Some just focus on every little ache and pain and make it way worse on themselves. Others just bite the bullet and say "I can do this, this isn't that bad. I will live" and just plow through. It only lasts a finite amount of time and then it's over.
    You just have to treat it like the flu. When you have the flu, you don't focus on it and freak out. You say "this sucks but it's not a big deal, I will live". And you get through it.

    I was scared of the w/d forever man. I let it control my life, paying $100's for a doctor for years and years on end. Thousands and thousands... It makes me sick to think about now! And it ended up being WAY worse in my fears than it was in real life. I mean, it sucked and all, but it was do-able for sure.

    My main symptoms were restlessness, anxiety and trouble sleeping. It was like a milder version of pain pill w/d. Less intense but a bit more drawn out. Really, it wasn't much worse than a bad flu.

    Ok, I'll try to check back in soon. Ttyl

    Oh and hi everyone! Sorry I haven't been around. I am still clean and sober though. No slip ups or anything.
    eyedotz likes this.
  3. RS8877

    RS8877 Member

    Hey Everyone -- its been a VERY long time since i posted

    I'm still taking -- literally scared to stop bc scared of the W/D -- i have to work and HAVE to be active with my 4-year old twins !

    I did find a site online that gives you a taper plan ... I just need to set my mind to it and do it !
    Any chance is me not going through WD's ?? i been on subs for about 2 years now -- dose anywhere from 2mg - 6mg --- I have the films and just rip off a small part --- then when i feel i have anxiety I take a larger piece -- i know its NOT the best method -- but it works to keep me Normal!!

    Here's the Site i found: I should give this an honest try!

    I hope everyone is doing well in your own way!
  4. spring

    spring Administrator

    Hi, Sorry you're not getting any replies. ODR is nowhere near as active as it used to be. I have some thoughts on this but unfortunately have to leave for work.
    I just wanted to acknowledge your post and will stop back in later tonight with a hopefully helpful reply.
  5. spring

    spring Administrator

    RS8877, Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.
    You can do this with little to no downtime if you do it right. It will take a long while to get to zero. Don't rush it, just take your time and follow the detox schedule, slow and steady will do it. If you try to rush it or try dropping your doses too fast you may find yourself upping your dose which defeats the purpose.

    I looked up this article written by Dr Scanlon who himself was addicted at one time. He gives a precise, detailed approach to detoxing his patients from Sub on an outpatient basis. I greatly respect his expertise as he's probably one of the few who actually took the time to study this drug.
    He states what I've always believed from the first day the FDA approved it...that it's an excellent detox tool but was never meant to be a maintenance drug.

    This will at least give you an idea of how to go about it and what to expect.. Check it out. You can do this!

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