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Why the hate to those still on MMT

Discussion in 'Detoxing from Methadone' started by rsmith46, Jul 13, 2014.

  1. rsmith46

    rsmith46 Active Member

    There seems to be a lot of members including mods that look down on people on MMT not detoxing. I have been on MMT in 81 to 84, for drug addition, it saved my life and I stayed clean for 22 years. I just got off the clinic 3 months ago after 4 years age 60 this time for pain from a accident it was the cheapest option with no insurance.
    I agree a lot of people are on clinic's that shouldn't be, but its the best treatment for hard core addicts that need a year or more to get their lives right. Most MMT clients are scared to detox because of the horror story's. The members here should support them not look down on them or tell them to go to other forums like AT watchdog.
    Thanks for this forum from the newbie.
  2. StuckonSubs

    StuckonSubs Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's that people look down on them. It's just that this forum is designed for people who want to get free of all opiates. It's not a place for people who are happy taking their daily methadone for the rest of their lives (or at least for the foreseeable future, with no real plans of getting off). I think it's kind of the same thinking as NA...
    In my opinion, someone is not truly clean until they are off All opiates/opioids. I hear people on Suboxone say that they are "clean" all the time and I always say - oh yeah, then stop taking your meds and see how you feel. Once that w/d hits you, then tell me how you were "clean"... Clean from your drug of choice, yeah. But not the same thing as drug free clean.

    Ive been on Suboxone maintenence for years. I know how to live my life "clean" with using a crutch. I don't need any help there. But living clean with no crutches, that is why I read many of the posts on this board - to pick up tips on living truly clean with no crutches (which is what makes this board so valuable).
  3. peacenik

    peacenik Administrator

    I've got to agree with stuckonsubs, no one hates MM patients. I certainly don't look down on you or anyone on methadone. I was on it myself twice, for six years the second time.

    It is, as stuck said, just that this is a site devoted to helping people get off drugs and to learn to enjoy life without them. And the mindset needed to live life drug free is quite different from that needed to accept life on methadone long term.

    best of luck I hope you'll share with us how it's going.
  4. spring

    spring Administrator

    It's all been said very well by StuckOnSubs and Peacenik and I''ll add my 2 cents to say that I dont look down on anybody who is making an effort to improve their lives. We all take different paths towards the same goal. Some go cold turkey or do a 7-28 day detox to get the physical part over with then dive into recovery programs for the first couple years while others choose to take it a little slower by getting on a maintenance drug to buy time to straighten their lives out with the eventual goal of living totally opiate free...And then there are those who dont want to live opiate free either because they are afraid it's not possible, or they don't want to put in the effort, or they are just plain happy living on opiate maintenance....or they bought into the lie that an addict HAS to have their opiates like a diabetic has to have their insulin.

    If a person chooses to live their whole life on opiates then I guess that's their choice, but why would they want to come to a website that focuses on getting free from all opiates, including methadone? That's the main issue here. There are people fighting for their lives towards a drug free life and really don't care to read post after post of how great life is on maintenance opiates.

    Bottom line in my opinion and many others' as well is that being CLEAN means just that...CLEAN from all opiates, not just from a person's particular opiate of choice.

    I havent had a chance to read your other posts so I dont know where you're at, but if you have the eventual goal of being free from all opiates then by all means make yourself a regular member here!

    To borrow a few words from the NA program...You are a member when you say you are and the only requirement for membership is a DESIRE to be free (from all opiates).

    But if you have no plans or desire to be free then why not find a website where you can communicate with like-minded people...only makes sense to me.
  5. rsmith46

    rsmith46 Active Member

    I detoxed off methadone 3 months ago. A lot of people are on the fence or just scared of the horror stories of detoxing, I just think a lot of people stlll on maint can be helped by this forum as much or more than those of us that have or are detoxing, every MMT'er I've known has struggled with when the right time is to detox, but even the mods have said that

    ( members who insist on discussing the pros and cons of long term maintenance therapy at ODR will be asked to leave or may have their account locked.) Or that they should go to AT Watchdog ect.

    If I had found this forum 2 years ago I Wouldn't
    have debated so long about detoxing but I'm sure I would have been asking how do you know when its time. Now people that would come here just wanting to make the case for being a lifer SHOULD go elsewhere.
  6. spring

    spring Administrator

    Exactly! Thank you.
  7. rsmith46

    rsmith46 Active Member

    I think members here could be a lot more helpful to people thinking about or on MMT or subs. I think half the people on done shouldn't be. But it saved my life in the 80's, I was a hopeless IV addict. I needed the 3 years on MMT.

    And I'm not pro MMT, I made a mistake getting back on it because I had an opiate habit after being clean 22 years. I was only using pills orally because of a bad accident and I started abusing opiates again. I was scarred to kick a large habit with no self control. In the beginning years of MMT you had to be a full blown IV addict, now clinic's let people in for hydrocodone use.
    I'm 60's and Methadone has done my body and brain a lot of damage after 4 years at 120mg.
    I'm still having really bad Paws 4 months after getting off Methadone.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  8. alumni

    alumni Member

    After working with countless addicts who have wrestled with questions like these involving "harm reduction" treatments like methodone or buprenorphine maintenance, I've come to believe there are two basic issues that need to be thoroughly understood.
    1.) These programs should be considered only as a last resort when trying to discontinue a very serious abuse problem. I cannot count the number of addicts who, after longer-term maintenance, have volunteered that they firmly believe they would have been far better off either tapering or abruptly kicking their pain pill habit initially. There are obviously situations with totally out-of-control abusers who have been through serial unsuccessful recovery attempts that have found no other means to get their lives under control. But to access these treatments right away before attempting the wide variety of other options available just isn't smart in my experience.
    2.) The huge majority of people I've counseled who unfortunately found themselves chained to "maintenance" meds have definitely been able to discontinue their use. Reading feedback on the Internet and listening to the klinik horror stories about the impossibility of discontinuing these drugs doesn't exactly encourage anyone to make an effort. However, the fact is that folks do it every day and it is far from impossible. Not to suggest that it's easy or quickly accomplished. But if done properly, along with a very strong personal commitment to succeeding, it is absolutely doable.
  9. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    I do not think anyone here judges one for the choice of remaining on MMT/MBT but this site is for those who wish to get clean, not maintain their addiction. I am a junkie, was on MMT and BMT. Will be the first to admit that being on MMT the time I was It did help me get back to somewhat of a functioning lifestyle. Taught me NOTHING on how to live without dope in my system. ONce I got off them it was no different the kicking H and having to adjust to living dope free… just was more damage and took much longer to heal. I really dont feel that I can help someone who chooses mmt/bmt. Its their choice to do so and I know it useless to try and talk someone into sober living… one either wants it or don't. Not saying one that wants it gets there immediately and yes… we need all the support we can render. I honestly didnt need help in my maintenance days…the dope did what I wanted it to do, (till it didtn). We are all fearful of withdrawal…. all fearful of living without dope. When I finally gave up and gave into my addiction the last thing I wanted was advice from someone who was on maintenance. I surely didn't know crap about sober living while maintaining my addiction… I wanted to hear from someone who has be successful staying opiate free. Talking without the walking is just that, talk.
    Good luck.
  10. rsmith46

    rsmith46 Active Member

    I was clean for 22 years after 3 years on methadone, I was a heroin/coke IV user for 10 years before getting on methadone clinic in 82. After detoxing and staying clean for a year or 2, I never even thought about getting high.
    I used to drive by the clinic and think never again but after no choice about taking pain pills for 2 years from a bad accident and surgeries I ended back on the clinic. Been off done for year but at 60 I can hardly work from the Paws, can't sleep, in constant pain, headache's. Still fighting.
  11. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    I know there is help for you out there but only you can decide what your willing to do to get and accept the help. All I can say is do your research. Arlene use to say.... when the pupil is ready the teacher will appear. I found this to be so true in my life.

    Keep searching... the dope will always be there for you. Methadone is a hard kick, hard recovery but dosnt have to be that hard. Just like the action you had to put behind getting off the meth you need to put action in finding the help you need, hopefully want?

    Good luck to you
  12. El Barto

    El Barto Well-Known Member

    because they hate to see themselves reflected on a mirror, when the mirror dosent return a nice image

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